What does it mean to be undocumented in today’s America? In this episode we speak to this question and more. Listen in as Orange is the New Black’s Diane Guerrero talks about her personal experiences with the many challenges faced by undocumented families. Her parents were detained when she was 14 and this is her story. Join Diane and host Piper Kerman as they discuss what that experience can mean for a family trying to make it in America today. Learn more about the Poussey Washington Fund and get involved at www.Crowdrise.com/PWF
What does it mean to be undocumented in today’s America? In this episode we speak to this question and more. Listen in as Orange is the New Black’s Diane Guerrero talks about her personal experiences with the many challenges faced by undocumented families. Her parents were detained when she was 14 and this is her story. Join Diane and host Piper Kerman as they discuss what that experience can mean for a family trying to make it in America today.
Learn more about the Poussey Washington Fund and get involved at www.Crowdrise.com/PWF
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Piper: This is From Where She Stands, a podcast connecting the storylines of Orange Is the New Black with stories from real women whose lives have been impacted by prison. I’m Piper Kerman.
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Maritza: Hi, everybody. Okay. So, what I’m doing now is contour and highlight. When I wasn’t in prison, I would do this with a Mac Pro palette and a number 19 fan brush. But in here, I use three spices that you can find in any kitchen: cinnamon, cumin, and Sazón Goya. Yes. Your face will smell like your abuela’s pork, but listen, you’ve to make sacrifices if you want to look DIY fly like me.
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Piper: The character Maritza Ramos is petite. She’s sharp-tongued, the best friend of Flaca. And she is the master of the cat eye. She’s someone who always has something funny to say to release the tension. But little bit little, her backstory expands and we get to know a three-dimensional woman, one whose life is torn apart by our country’s immigration policies. When I asked actress Diane Guerrero who plays Maritza about any of the things that they had in common, this is what she told me:
Diane: Maritza probably didn’t have supportive parents. And my parents were taken away.
Piper: And it’s that story that we’re going to hear more about today. One that actress Diane Guerrero says she had to build herself up to eventually be able to share. For her, it was a story that held a lot of shame, but one that she had to tell.
Piper: Episode 2: A(part).
Piper: Diane Guerrero’s parents came to the United States from Columbia on a visitor visa and they stayed. Her parents worked multiple jobs.
Diane: From cleaning houses to working in different factories to babysitting to making meals for other families in the neighborhood.
Piper: And they kept their heads low. Being undocumented was a risk. And even though Diane was born in the United States, the family lived with this looming threat of being deported.
Diane: It was always something different. I don’t remember my parents really having the same job for too long.
Piper: Diane remembers the ways her father would, sort of, shift when he was in public. He didn’t do things that would draw too much attention his way. He didn’t speak too loud. He meticulously followed the traffic rules. Diane remembers everything seeming to revolve around becoming citizens. Her mom once paid a woman claiming to be a lawyer promising them visas only to find out that she was a paralegal who then left town scamming other families as well. But they kept on.
Diane: When I was little, my dad would work during the day and then my mom would go to a night job when he came back. I would go clean offices with her as a kid.
Female: [Speaks Spanish 00:03:25]
Diane: I’d sit on the different like, desks there with like, pens and paper or pads.
Female: [Speaks Spanish 00:03:41]
Diane: She’d sit me there and just tell me to be quiet until she got back.
Female child: [Speaks Spanish 00:03:49]
Diane: That was always fun. But I would always take candy or chocolate around. So, I’d always sneak those. I would only take like, one or two. I wasn’t like, a monster.
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Diane: They were here taking these jobs because they wanted to provide a better life for me. And that they would always say, look, look. Look at what I’m doing. Look at what I’m doing. This is why you have to go to school. This is why you have to study. This is why you have to get an education, so that you won’t have to do this work. Hopefully you’ll grow up and be a professional one day and you won’t have to do this kind of work.
Mother and child: [Singing in Spanish 00:04:33]
Diane: And so, I kept that with me.
Mother and child: [Continue singing in Spanish 00:04:38].
Diane: I was 14 at the time. It was my freshman year in high school. And around this time like, we were still having a lot of problems like, moving further with my parents’ residency or citizenship or anything like that. So, that was always in the back of my mind. It was always weighing on me. And so, I grew up with a lot of anxiety and a lot of stress. And, of course, as a teenager, all I wanted to think about was myself and worrying about school and like, making sure that I was doing well. But that was always really hard because, you know, you couldn’t really concentrate on you when you’re afraid you’re going to come home and them not be there. And so, that’s exactly what happened, of course.
I was just walking home after school and I saw my parents’ cars there. I knew that they were out of work. But I had been calling them and they weren’t picking up. And so, I already knew like, every time I felt, you know, when I couldn’t reach them and I felt, you know, a little funny, I always thought that that was a possibility. And, of course, I opened the door and they weren’t there. The next-door neighbor came in and told me that they had been taken away by immigration. I didn’t really know what to do. You know? I was 14. So, I-, my dad told me, you know, not to go anywhere. That was the main thing is like, don’t go anywhere else.
Piper: Diane found out that her parents had been detained separately by ICE. Her mom was arrested while making dinner. And her father was put in handcuffs when he arrived home from work. And Diane, she had a choice to go back to Columbia with her parents, or stay put with a friend of the family.
Diane: Everybody’s question is like, okay, so, you go with your parents, naturally. Well, that’s not what I had in mind, ever, that I would go with them. I didn’t see a life there. And I just knew that my parents did have any money or the means to give me the kind of life that I needed in Columbia. My mother was pretty clear that she wanted me to go with her. And my dad… [chuckles] My dad always, sort of, treated me like an adult. Just because I always feel like he was just so sorry that he had to put me through this shit. I think he was just always like, look. You’re the smartest person in our family. I know it’s terrible to say.
Piper: There are an estimated four million children under the age of 18 in the United States, all U.S. citizens, that live with at least one undocumented parent. We’ve all heard too many devastating stories of children being separated from their parents. And like in Diane’s case, children are put in positions to make a decision that could divide their family forever.
Diane: My mother, of course, was really upset. She wanted me to go with her because she would always say that a child’s place was with her mother. And my dad said she’s old enough to choose to stay and choose her education and start working on her life. And I was very clear about that too. In retrospect, I don’t know what could have happened. Who’s to say that I wouldn’t have made a great life for myself in Columbia? It’s just not the life I chose.
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Female: Both of Diane’s parents were held in detention centers before they were sent back to Columbia. Diane went to visit them. She hugged her father goodbye. She remembers him telling her to be strong. He mother was in handcuffs whispering I love you just before she stepped on a van that took her away. Things continued to change.
Diane: Oh, my God, yes. I cannot wait for this party tonight. What are you wearing?
Diane: I didn’t really like talking to my folks on the phone.
Diane: Ooh, that’s super cute.
[Beeping noise]
Diane: Hold on, I have another call coming in. It’s my parents. Got to go.
Diane: That’s what happens when you separate a family.
Diane: [Speaking Spanish 00:09:32]
Diane: It essentially just breaks the family unit and breaks that relationship, or just really strains it. I mean, high school kids already don’t want to talk to their parents. You know?
Diane: [Speaking Spanish 00:09:47]
Diane: They were, kind of, a reminder that that part of my life was over. And so, that caused me a lot of pain. And in order for me to survive high school I had to put all those feelings away. Essentially, I needed a therapist. But I didn’t have that at the time. And I-, in order to get through it, I just needed to not talk to them. So, that caused a lot of stress.
Piper: What happens when families are separated in this way is something that’s been studied and analyzed. Research has shown that PTSD is much higher for children whose parents are detained. Many children internalize these problems with deep guilt and shame.
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Diane: I saw my parents immediately after they were deported. So, that summer of high school I went to Columbia to see them. That was tough. And it was like, so shocking. The whole experience was like, terrible. My parents split up. So, that was new. They were also dealing with like, so much drama and so much trauma from the whole experience.
My dad was living with his family and my mother was living with her family. And they weren’t talking to each other. What I needed at that moment was for my family to be together and talk to me about all of this and I-, I was kind of, dealing with two different people handling something very, very traumatic. And so, that was hard for me.
[Music continues and ends]
Piper: The family was separated in 2001. And for Diane, the idea of her parents being back in the United States seems more and more out of reach.
Diane: Not much has changed in this country. If anything, the immigration system in this country has become a lot worse because now we have not just family separations, but now we have children being put into cages. With sharing my story, my hopes have been to help other families not feel so alone, especially young kids who are going through this right now.
[Music begins]
Piper: Within Orange Is the New Black, we begin to see the show tackle some of the realities of immigration detention centers. And it’s something we talked more about. So, when I think about the last season – here we are. You know? Season 7. Seven seasons. What an amazing journey this has been. What we see with Maritza is that she gets detained.
Diane: Yeah.
Piper: You know, we sort, of, see, you know, this character who we love so much who’s brought so much joy in terms of laughter but also who we’ve seen survive terrifying things taken away. And so, and on an emotional level, what was it like to play something that is in some ways very close to home?
Diane: I just couldn’t believe when the storyline was presented to me. I was in tears. I was so happy. And to think that, you know, I was being asked to tell this story, for me, it was a winning moment because I thought, man, we’re going to get to tell this story on this show, on this-, on such an important show. And maybe I did have something to do with that.
Piper: Jenji Kohan has done an amazing job in terms of weaving all of these interconnected realities. I think about, obviously, ICE prisons and the intersection of, you know, bad immigration policies and bad mass incarceration policies. And that’s what I really, I mean, for lack of a better term, loved about seeing those realities brought to life in a character that so many people could connect to.
Diane: Right.
Piper: Yeah.
Diane: Right. Because it really can happen to anyone. And a lot of these immigration prisons are holding families. That’s-, actually, that’s all they’re holding are families. These are the people who are being detained. The father dropping their child off for-, to school. The woman going to her job in the morning.
Piper: Hm. And how has your family in Columbia understood, sort of, your performance as Maritza? How has that been for them?
Diane: Oh, man. It’s been really redeeming, I think. I saw my parents spiral into depression and just sick to their stomachs about what could happen to me. And that was their worry. Their worry was, this person, who we had so many hopes for, they didn’t know what would happen to me. And, of course, there’s a tremendous amount of guilt to know that it was them. Because they were undocumented. Because they had to go. Because they also made the decision to let me stay and fend for myself and live out this “American Dream” that I had.
I mean, that was the big thing. I was like, mom, dad, I need to stay. I need to finish school. There is no life out there for me. I have a bigger plan here. And so, they were very afraid of what that would lead to. But I think that they’re feeling pretty good now that I had a good head on my shoulders and that I-, first of all that they gave me so much love to help me carry out my journey. And that’s why I believe in the power of love so much because I feel like they gave me so much.
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Piper: So, we’ve been thinking a lot about things we can do outside of prison walls. One thing we’ve done is launched the Poussey Washington Fund. The money raised from this fund will go to help eight organizations fighting to end the epidemic of mass incarceration of women in America. When you donate, you’ll contribute to the fight for criminal justice reform, immigration rights, and helping women integrate back into the wider community after their sentences. To join us you can visit crowdrise.com/pwf.
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Piper: Join us next week.
Lisa: I hated this prison when I got here. I have 25 years in for a burglary, three strikes. And I had spent 10 years at Vacaville before I came here. So, when I got here, it just seemed like… All these men. They think they’re this. They think they’re that. And then here I come. And I didn’t know where I fit in.
Piper: That’s Lisa Strawn, a transgender woman doing time in a men’s prison in San Quentin. We’ll be hearing from her and Laverne Cox.
Laverne: Hello, Piper, how are you doing, darling?
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Piper: From Where She Stands is a production of Netflix and Pineapple Street Studios. From Netflix, our executive producers are Nia Lee, Torrey Glyker, [phonetic 00:17:45] and Brooke Rees. From Orange Is the New Black, executive producers are Jenji Kohan, Tara Herrmann, and myself, Piper Kerman. This series was created by Pineapple Street Studios, executive producers are Jenna Weiss-Berman, Max Linsky, and Leila Day. The senior producer is Leila Day with lead producer Josh Gwynn and producer Justine Daum. Production assistants from the incredible Jessica Jupiter and Sophie Bridges. Our sound engineer is James Rowlands. Music throughout the episode is by Salami Rose. Special thanks for the vocal talents who are part of the sound design of this episode; Camila Salazar, Deanna Montilla, [phonetic 00:18:32] and Sianna Grace Karaskia [phonetic 00:18:34]. And thanks to Alejandro Jaramillo [phonetic 00:18:38]. I’m Piper Kerman.
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